How can you hate the two stroke rule...it's awesome?!?!?

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dewrag
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Re: How can you hate the two stroke rule...it's awesome?!?!?

Postby dewrag » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:37 pm

Derek 187 wrote:
dewrag wrote:
Derek 187 wrote:
dewrag wrote:Hahah saw the love post before this one....

Yea what the fuck? must be mad he gave up 5 hp all season.


And how is it easier to cheat on a 2 stroke vs 4??


What I'm trying to say is if a rule is put in place like the stock engine rule for the 2 stroke engines then it needs to be kept on the up and up. I feel like it wasn't and there isn't much more I'm going to say about it other then that.



So the CMRC is doing a bang up job enforcing all of the other rules? This is the only rule (that I've heard of, and I follow mx better than the average guy) anyone including yourself has been consistently vocal about. It'd be different if everyone complained about the CMRC enforcing rules in general, but everyone bitched about this one and this one only so much that it got changed. Its very suspect when people bitch about enforcing only one of the rules, and not the entire rule book.

I'm still interested in hearing your thoughts on how its easier to cheat on a 2 stroke vs. 4 stroke. Leading edge has had questionable bikes in my mind for years. Yet no one complains about how they tear down 4 strokes. The CMRC must use the snap on tools to measure 4 stroke stuff, then get out the hammer and chisel to measure 2 strokes......


I ever actually said that it is easier to cheat with a 2stroke then a 4stroke. I said it's easy to cheat with that engine when it is not thoroughly checked during a tear down. I am also not saying Kaven was necessarily cheating, what I'm trying to say is that I was not satisfied with the system of how the engines that were tore down this year were checked. If an engine is to be stock I would expect more to be done then a cylinder pulled off and looked at by eye and slapped back on. If that's the case then don't bother having the rule.

I understand you obviously don't like how I answered the question but if I'm going to answer a question I am going to answer it truthfully and whether you like my answer or not I gave you my honest opinion. I feel like I have strong reason to feel the way I do about the rules regarding the situation and the cloudiness of the rule book on it. As for enforcing other rules, I'm sure if you asked the head referee he would let you know that this is not the only rule I have questioned for clarity. You say this is the only rule that I am vocal about but that is because it's the only one that I am asked about every time I do an interview lately...

At least my answer gave you guys something to talk about on the forum considering how boring it's been on here lately ;)



I appreciate your honesty, I hate the bullshit that most people have to talk when you ask them a question in this sport.

I still think your concerns wouldn't be concerns if you weren't getting beat by one.... I guess well never know.
rew
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Re: How can you hate the two stroke rule...it's awesome?!?!?

Postby rew » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:51 am

maybe we should look at the fact that we have a "feeder" class with +25 riders in it as much as the 2 stroke deal...KB is a awesome rider but he's at the age when most pro riders are planning their retirement. Yes I understand he's with in the rules as they are written, but maybe instead of the 2 stroke being the bullseye maybe we need to look at all the factors before we jump to conclusions.

Have tear downs ever been done "properly" in Canadian mx weather CMRC or CMA, hell I hear the ama and mxgp guys bitching as well.

If it was not for the one bike or the other part of the 2 stroke rule, we may have seen KB kick some ass on a 4 stroke as well...but we will never know that out come.
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Re: How can you hate the two stroke rule...it's awesome?!?!?

Postby Main Event Maker » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:59 am

GDR is a cool team with great-looking bikes, and it was awesome that they went to the Indiana national....but let's be honest, they can't give any other answer about the 2-stroke. They are sponsored by Honda, which has made a corporate decision to move to 4-strokes, and Honda doesn't like to be beat by a rival company that has not abandoned 2-stroke technology. So, you would be fooling yourself if you think a massive company like Honda wouldn't try to influence a sanctioning body's rules if they could. Isn't that what's happening here? The question asked by Matthes had a predictable response.

The same corporate bias against the 2-stroke applies in the US series...MX Sports runs AMA racing...MX Sports is connected to RacerX...take a look at the big Honda banner across the top of each Racerhead column. MX Sports & RacerX are going to start promoting equal displacement racing? Hmmm, not likely.
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VET-1
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Re: How can you hate the two stroke rule...it's awesome?!?!?

Postby VET-1 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:19 pm

I find it absurd that they are the slightest bit concerned that a guy on a 250 smoker is "cheating" when the bigger teams pour untold amounts of money modding the hell out of their 250 4 strokes.
250f , 9,000.00 ish + 5,000 in motor mods = 14,000
250 2 stroke , 7,000 + 1,000 in mods = 8,000

yah, the guy on the smoker is clearly cheating :-({|=
That Ricky Johnson, he's one funny motherfucker!!
honest to god, a medical doctor told me that, and i have a witness!!
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Re: How can you hate the two stroke rule...it's awesome?!?!?

Postby Main Event Maker » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:32 pm

Yup....want further proof that non-2-stroke manufacturers can unduly influence a sanctioning body? This was on today's DMX Frid'Eh update:
http://www.directmotocross.com/frideh-u ... -by-scott/

2-Strokes in MX2 for 2016?

We’re also hearing that there should be a final decision made on who (if anyone) can ride a 250 2-stroke in the MX2 Pro/Am class at the nationals in 2016. At this point, it sounds like it is going to be restricted to those riders WITHOUT ANY FACTORY SUPPORT.

OK, so where does that line get drawn? Obviously, our major team with the big rigs will be out, but where does that leave a rider like Liam O’Farrell? Liam got his support through Orange Motorsports but that dealer got the bike through KTM Canada, so what does that mean?

The teams that I spoke to were clear that they are going to need something in writing to ensure these rules get followed to the letter in 2016. We should have an answer to this question after the Manufacturers’ Meeting in late October too.


....sigh...keep the stockholders happy, boys....i.e. those who don't even know what motocross is. If this goes thru, CDN moto is about to get a whole lot less cool.
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dewrag
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Re: How can you hate the two stroke rule...it's awesome?!?!?

Postby dewrag » Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:23 pm

What a fucking load of shit!

Well, I guess most of my previous statements are true:
- factory teams/manufactures are full on fucking butt hurt about getting beat straight up.
- they only care about the bike in front of them.
- people wouldn't give a fuck about it if Kaven didn't win.
- go back and re-read the first point, its the main reason why this discussion is happening.

Derek, sorry bud, you got sold out when I read that the final decision will be at the manufactures meeting. All I can say is, thanks, you da best. :! :!
dewrag
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Re: How can you hate the two stroke rule...it's awesome?!?!?

Postby dewrag » Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:27 pm

VET-1 wrote:I find it absurd that they are the slightest bit concerned that a guy on a 250 smoker is "cheating" when the bigger teams pour untold amounts of money modding the hell out of their 250 4 strokes.
250f , 9,000.00 ish + 5,000 in motor mods = 14,000
250 2 stroke , 7,000 + 1,000 in mods = 8,000

yah, the guy on the smoker is clearly cheating :-({|=



You'll have to ask GDR on what the return trip costs on shipping a 250f motor to the states is. I'd say 5k is a little low.
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Re: How can you hate the two stroke rule...it's awesome?!?!?

Postby Donk » Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:53 pm

All Derek was stating is the methods used during the cmrc's inpection are pathetic.

Also, certain things done on a 2 stroke have much more of an affect than that of a 4 stroke. Such as modifying the crankshaft. Since the webs, or cheeks, are directly used in the operation of a 2 cycle engine, modifying said pieces will drastically change the performance characteristics of the engine. On a 4 stroke, all the action takes place on top of the piston and the crankshaft is merely a rotating mass guiding the piston up and down. You can knife the webs to "cut" through the oil but that does not make the difference like on a 2 stroke.

I (Liam) was tore down at the conclusion on the Ulverton national this year.
1. It was labelled a CMRC Random tear down.
2. Liam's bone stock SX250. With a .20 base gasket.
3. I did not remove the head from the cylinder, only pulled the cylinder off the piston.
4. The bore was measured with Verniers
5. A visual inspection including the words "so that's what those look like" of the exposed crankshaft
6. One thing that also ruffled my feathers was I, or whoever the mechanic of the randomly chosen rider, was required to do the work. For zero compensation. Not only was I cornered into doing a service for the CMRC for FREE, Liam was not compensated either, so here he is, with a torn apart top end and now has to spend money out of HIS pocket to purchase gaskets to properly return his motorcycle to working order. To me, that's some serious bullshit.

Realistically, enough with the stupid 2 stroke shit, it's 2015, going on '16... Let's just race 4 strokes. Here's some breaking news... racing isn't cheap, no matter what type it is. BUT, You can build reliable fast 4 strokes fairly inexpensively. Instead of buying Pistons, cams, pipes, valves, ignitions, blah blah blah do what pillow said and buy a damn book written by smokey yunick and learn a thing or 2 and realize that "building an engine" isn't throwing a bunch of high dollar parts into it and hoping it will work. Try tossing 12 eggs, lb of butter, bunch of flour and a bag of sugar into a bowl, mixing it and baking it. Who knows what the hell you're getting.... Now take the correct amount of each ingredient and you may come up with the best damn cookies since great grandma made em back in '92. ;)
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Re: How can you hate the two stroke rule...it's awesome?!?!?

Postby eddie » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:38 pm

all the corporate guys like the four strokes and all the fans and local racers like the two strokes ... that should tell us something .

tail wags the dog ? wtf ....

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