How can you hate the two stroke rule...it's awesome?!?!?

no rules!

Moderators: bigwave, AirMail, pillow

pillow
the ultimate god
Posts: 7539
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:44 pm
Location: drinking margarita's on the beach...somewhere between Kits and Cabo
Contact:

How can you hate the two stroke rule...it's awesome?!?!?

Postby pillow » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:29 am

C'mon D, you can't go all corporate now that your famous :eek:

from Racer X

The two-stroke rule—what do you think of that? Honda doesn’t sell a two-stroke anymore, so you don’t have the option to build one. What do you think of the CMRC doing that?


Personally, I’m not a big fan of it, regardless of Honda having a two-stroke or not. There’s a lot of speculation about it when guys aren’t racing on the same bikes in the same class. It does make it tough because we don’t really know what we’re necessarily up against. I don’t know if I necessarily like the changes that they made this past year with the stock rule. I think it’s pretty easy to cheat on one of those engines. To be honest with you, I wasn’t totally satisfied with the way they did the random teardowns, and I definitely let them know that throughout the season. I feel that they definitely weren’t thorough enough with it, and it could easily make guys get away with making modifications anyway, which makes it pointless to have the rule.
http://www.truxxx.com

"Life isn't like a bowl of cherries, it's more like a
jar of Jalapenos--what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow......"

"Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom."
-George S. Patton

Somebody stole my 2008 CRF250R ~ vin # JH2ME102X8K410130
dewrag
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:29 pm

Re: How can you hate the two stroke rule...it's awesome?!?!?

Postby dewrag » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:05 pm

Hahah saw the love post before this one....

Yea what the fuck? must be mad he gave up 5 hp all season.


And how is it easier to cheat on a 2 stroke vs 4??
Derek 187
Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:12 pm
Location: Courtland On.
Contact:

Re: How can you hate the two stroke rule...it's awesome?!?!?

Postby Derek 187 » Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:28 am

dewrag wrote:Hahah saw the love post before this one....

Yea what the fuck? must be mad he gave up 5 hp all season.


And how is it easier to cheat on a 2 stroke vs 4??


What I'm trying to say is if a rule is put in place like the stock engine rule for the 2 stroke engines then it needs to be kept on the up and up. I feel like it wasn't and there isn't much more I'm going to say about it other then that.
pillow
the ultimate god
Posts: 7539
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:44 pm
Location: drinking margarita's on the beach...somewhere between Kits and Cabo
Contact:

Re: How can you hate the two stroke rule...it's awesome?!?!?

Postby pillow » Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:14 am

What I'm trying to say is if a rule is put in place like the stock engine rule for the 2 stroke engines then it needs to be kept on the up and up. I feel like it wasn't and there isn't much more I'm going to say about it other then that.


My dad raced Hydroplanes waaaaaay back in the early 60's in a stock class, he ran a stock motor like everyone else, but he spent "hours" testing different things and one day he found that 1/8" difference in height on the transom gave him 4mph...so, I was a little kid just learning how to ride/race when he told me that so I know you can find stuff if you look...some people look, some people cheat...I would look, don't know about anyone on the nationals now, but...

I will tell you what I know from experience...waay back in the dark ages before fuel injection and airforks, there were ways to get 10-15% more power out of a two stroke 125 without ever taking a cylinder or head off from the factory...we got 3-4 hp on a 125 pretty easy, once and a while you got 5-6...with porting you were easily low 40's..

So with the new fuel, ignitions and dyno time, I bet I could find 4-6 hp on a 250 without pulling a head or cylinder...with the amount of base gasket thickness's available too you can really alter port timing to get what you want...

But, I know I wouldn't cheat...but I would try every trick the rule book "allowed" just like Smokey would have 8)

If you don't know about Smokey Unick, try this... http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a6 ... ng-cheats/

Smokey Yunick, owner of Daytona's Best Damn Garage in Town, was a perpetual thorn in the side of NASCAR in general, and Bill France in particular. The self-taught engineer was a genius at aerodynamics, and his tricks to make a car's body slip through the air were far ahead of his time. But Yunick was perhaps best known for interpreting what the rule book said—or, perhaps, didn't say. For example: In 1968, he said NASCAR specified how big a fuel tank could be, but he noticed no one said how big the fuel line could be. Instead of a half-inch fuel line, Yunick created a two-inch fuel line that was 11 feet long, and held five gallons of gas. Cheating? Not really, since nowhere did it say you couldn't do that.
http://www.truxxx.com

"Life isn't like a bowl of cherries, it's more like a
jar of Jalapenos--what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow......"

"Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom."
-George S. Patton

Somebody stole my 2008 CRF250R ~ vin # JH2ME102X8K410130
ProMXMechanic
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:07 am

Re: How can you hate the two stroke rule...it's awesome?!?!?

Postby ProMXMechanic » Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:46 pm

The thing that irritates me is that the "original 4 stroke/2 stroke rule" was based on old style 4 stroke engines not these new high performance 4 strokes. It seemed everyone was OK with a 250 4 stroke racing a 150 2 stroke which was as fair as a Volkswagen Beetle racing a Porsche.

The fair way is strictly CC's to CC's.

Everyone can decide what they want to race, fair and square.

If Honda is belly aching then maybe bring back their 2 stroke.

And for the record...... as far as cheating goes, I think the 4 strokers were as guilty as anyone this year.
dewrag
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:29 pm

Re: How can you hate the two stroke rule...it's awesome?!?!?

Postby dewrag » Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:15 pm

Derek 187 wrote:
dewrag wrote:Hahah saw the love post before this one....

Yea what the fuck? must be mad he gave up 5 hp all season.


And how is it easier to cheat on a 2 stroke vs 4??


What I'm trying to say is if a rule is put in place like the stock engine rule for the 2 stroke engines then it needs to be kept on the up and up. I feel like it wasn't and there isn't much more I'm going to say about it other then that.



So the CMRC is doing a bang up job enforcing all of the other rules? This is the only rule (that I've heard of, and I follow mx better than the average guy) anyone including yourself has been consistently vocal about. It'd be different if everyone complained about the CMRC enforcing rules in general, but everyone bitched about this one and this one only so much that it got changed. Its very suspect when people bitch about enforcing only one of the rules, and not the entire rule book.

I'm still interested in hearing your thoughts on how its easier to cheat on a 2 stroke vs. 4 stroke. Leading edge has had questionable bikes in my mind for years. Yet no one complains about how they tear down 4 strokes. The CMRC must use the snap on tools to measure 4 stroke stuff, then get out the hammer and chisel to measure 2 strokes......
dewrag
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:29 pm

Re: How can you hate the two stroke rule...it's awesome?!?!?

Postby dewrag » Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:38 pm

I'd put my nuts on the chopping blocking saying that if kaven didn't finish the 2014 season, didn't win the title, or finished outside the top 5, no one would have given 2 fucks about changing the rule.

Now that he's won again, the bitching comes out of the wood work. Everyone wants to point the finger at him cheating, but what if everyone just outright got beat by the guy? Don't hear anything about him riding good or team ktm. Just problems with the Beniot Rule.
Derek 187
Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:12 pm
Location: Courtland On.
Contact:

Re: How can you hate the two stroke rule...it's awesome?!?!?

Postby Derek 187 » Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:53 pm

dewrag wrote:
Derek 187 wrote:
dewrag wrote:Hahah saw the love post before this one....

Yea what the fuck? must be mad he gave up 5 hp all season.


And how is it easier to cheat on a 2 stroke vs 4??


What I'm trying to say is if a rule is put in place like the stock engine rule for the 2 stroke engines then it needs to be kept on the up and up. I feel like it wasn't and there isn't much more I'm going to say about it other then that.



So the CMRC is doing a bang up job enforcing all of the other rules? This is the only rule (that I've heard of, and I follow mx better than the average guy) anyone including yourself has been consistently vocal about. It'd be different if everyone complained about the CMRC enforcing rules in general, but everyone bitched about this one and this one only so much that it got changed. Its very suspect when people bitch about enforcing only one of the rules, and not the entire rule book.

I'm still interested in hearing your thoughts on how its easier to cheat on a 2 stroke vs. 4 stroke. Leading edge has had questionable bikes in my mind for years. Yet no one complains about how they tear down 4 strokes. The CMRC must use the snap on tools to measure 4 stroke stuff, then get out the hammer and chisel to measure 2 strokes......


I ever actually said that it is easier to cheat with a 2stroke then a 4stroke. I said it's easy to cheat with that engine when it is not thoroughly checked during a tear down. I am also not saying Kaven was necessarily cheating, what I'm trying to say is that I was not satisfied with the system of how the engines that were tore down this year were checked. If an engine is to be stock I would expect more to be done then a cylinder pulled off and looked at by eye and slapped back on. If that's the case then don't bother having the rule.

I understand you obviously don't like how I answered the question but if I'm going to answer a question I am going to answer it truthfully and whether you like my answer or not I gave you my honest opinion. I feel like I have strong reason to feel the way I do about the rules regarding the situation and the cloudiness of the rule book on it. As for enforcing other rules, I'm sure if you asked the head referee he would let you know that this is not the only rule I have questioned for clarity. You say this is the only rule that I am vocal about but that is because it's the only one that I am asked about every time I do an interview lately...

At least my answer gave you guys something to talk about on the forum considering how boring it's been on here lately ;)
dewrag
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:29 pm

Re: How can you hate the two stroke rule...it's awesome?!?!?

Postby dewrag » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:34 pm

"I think its pretty easy to cheat on one of those engines."

is that not saying that cheating on a 2 stroke is easier than a 4 stroke? (fill me in if you meant something different because thats what I got out of that, if you mean something different the only other thing you could have been going for is that its easy to cheat on both),presumably you mean easier than 4 stroke because there is no 3,5, or 6 stroke engines, and I'm just wondering where that came from, because to be honest, I don't think you have a good answer on how its pretty easy to cheat on one vs. the other.

To me there are equal opportunities to slide shit by on either. They use the same inspection method, regardless of motor, so whats the fuss about?

Return to “motoRcross chat:”

Who is online

Registered users: Google [Bot]